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I was doing a job search for my daughter, and I kept seeing this:

Reference Code: 12008175 Location: Wilmington, DE, USA Education Level: Bachelor's Degree Required Description Summary: Duties are complex and confidential requiring the highest level

Seriously?   All of us women who got our degrees, against all odds, being told that we would have gotten the job... BUT we were....... Too Cute  Too young, Going to have children and leave the job for family, all that training wasted.. basically we were TOO FEMALE!!  

We were forced to take Secretarial jobs and fought our way up out of the typing pool and through glass ceiling after glass ceiling.  I remember being told how I was making some family suffer for taking a "man' job, it was why they were paying me less.  After all I had a husband who was also working... right!

Only to NOW see that they have relegated us BACK to Secretarial and re-engineered all of those glass ceilings?  


*Update;  for those who do not remember, discrimination was a regular practice in the working world.  I was told at 20 I was too cute, and some man was going to marry me and that was why I was not hired.  My first real job was on the line at gm, where my foreman groped me, my committee man did nothing about it, the men whistled, and humiliated me daily, it was not yet against the law.  My first Education related job paid me 13,500 a year. I got the extra 500 over the married women because Ii was divorced.  Then my career position, i was physically threatened 5 times with violence.  Paid about 60% of my male counterparts.  If you as a 20 or 30 something current working woman have never experienced this.   your welcome ***

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with the secretarial field.  it is a challenging, and rewarding career, if that is what you want.  But to demand a degree?  That means I come into a low paying job WITH about 25K in debt.  

Knocked back again.  When will, we the women of this country, get equal rights?  I mean we have only been asking for over 100 years now.  

When will WE be the front line of the Civil Rights movement?  I get Gay marriage as a right. But can I get equal pay my Gay male co-worker? Oh HELL NO!!   then I too would have the disposable income necessary to make Equal rights for women a political hot spot too!

(I would take equal pay over marriage any day.  In my career, had I made equal pay to my male counter-parts, I would have made almost a million dollars more.  I can pay for my own insurance and a good probate lawyer with extra money like that.... million.)

This election HAS to be about us ladies, our bodies, our minds and our ability to take care of ourselves is under attack.  If the women of the ancient kingdoms of the Nile valley could get equal rights,  why can't we?  (Women had equal rights in the Nile valley right Up to Christianity and Islam.Both male dominated religions)

Can I get an amen, with a side of equal pay please.

9:45 AM PT: Hit the machine did I, all of the comments have the exact same rhetoric.  bloggers to the rescue of the establishment.  I would have said paid bloggers, but some of you volunteer during the elections.  

9:45 AM PT: Last comment, off to the store and life trash the diary away.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Noddy, Calamity Jean, atana, Pandoras Box

    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by one pissed off democrat on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:13:02 AM PDT

  •  You're looking at that wrong... (4+ / 0-)

    that's to scare away all the M.A.'s, J.D.'s and Ph.D.'s who are looking for survival jobs.

  •  I don't understand. (3+ / 0-)

    How are you getting anything worthy of a discussion-or-rant from that single job-ad heading?

    But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

    by Rich in PA on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:21:32 AM PDT

  •  I'm really confused by this diary (13+ / 0-)

    I don't know how requiring a bachelor's degree for a job is relegating women back to secretarial jobs.

    I'm job searching right now, and I see that everywhere. Bachelor's degree or equivalent experience is required.

    What does this have to do with women's rights? I'm genuinely confused.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:21:33 AM PDT

  •  The fact is education has been so poorly funded... (9+ / 0-)

    over the last 40+ years that employers know many High School gradutes can barely read or write.

    They are starting to require colleg diplomas and BA's to ensure the person hired is actually educated to the level they need.

    In my own job, the requirement is for a Bachelor of Science but a Masters is preferred.  This is for an Insurance company.

    I don't think its so much about keeping women down as it is a reflection on the state of education in the Western World today.

    “Tax and Spend” I can understand. I can even understand “Borrow and Spend”. But “Borrow and Give Tax Cuts to Billionaires”? That I have a problem with.

    by LiberalCanuck on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:27:19 AM PDT

  •  Add me to the list of those who are confused. (11+ / 0-)

    Unless there's been a big reversal since this 2005 article, women are going to college in even higher numbers than men—so a BA requirement for an entry-level job doesn't seem like it's at all discriminatory against women.

    Now, I could definitely see the argument that it's discriminatory against those who don't have the means to get a college degree, and/or the argument that the skills required for the position aren't really worthy of a BA requirement and that the requirement is just to weed out those of lower socioeconomic class, but I'm really not seeing the gender angle here.

    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

    by JamesGG on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:29:19 AM PDT

    •  It has nothing to do (0+ / 0-)

      with us trying to improve ourselves, it has to do with always being pushed back.

      A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom. Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by one pissed off democrat on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:42:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not seeing the "pushed back" part here. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        allergywoman, SoCaliana

        How does this job posting support the claim that women are being "pushed back"?

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:46:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  One Pissed Off: (0+ / 0-)

        dKos is a boys locker room. Testosterone rules here; always has, always will.

        There is much more pleasant, er, atmosphere over at FireDogLake, which was created by a very cool woman, Jane Hamsher.

        (Just in case you didn't already know).

        In testosterone-soaked places like dKos, the boys think it is sport to pick out anything the disagree with in diary and shoot at it, while ignoring any part they might agree with and build on. Maybe they learn this approach from those point-and-shoot computer games they grew up with, I don't know... But this is pretty much the only behavior you will find on dKos except towards the few token female front pagers.

  •  This diary is extremely confusing. (9+ / 0-)

    Am I to assume that this job listing is for a secretarial position? I have no idea what this job listing is for.

    I also don't know what you're getting at with gay rights, either, but it seems you are hinting at the fallacy that gay men have more disposable income than other segments of society, which is patently untrue and deeply offensive. I think we can fight for equal pay for equal work AND gay rights. Why do you think it has to be an either/or? Don't forget, many gay people are women.

    Here's my suggestion. Re-write this diary so that we're clear what it's even about. If you want to make women's rights and gay rights an either/or issue, that's your prerogative, but be prepared for some very strongly worded comments from other Kossacks, because you'll get them.

    I'm on your side. I think. Please help us understand better what you want to communicate.

    Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car. Ren and Stimpy: Dog on Cat

    by commonmass on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:31:41 AM PDT

  •  I agree there should be pay equity (4+ / 0-)

    But then I also supported the ERA.

    On the Bachelor's requirement, what is the full job description?  

    You're saying that job was advertised for women, versus men?

    And I too don't get the gay rights angle.  What do you mean by that?

  •  I kept re-reading the diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    thinking that there must have been a key sentence or paragraph omitted.  

    After reading the comments, I see that the diarist is drawing a certain inference which to many (including me) is not so obvious.

    "Degree inflation" certainly affects females.  But I don't think it's exist is primarily a gender-based phenomenon.  

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 10:35:06 AM PDT

  •  There is always an unreasonable demand for (0+ / 0-)

    opinion to be backed up by data around here.  You'll have to get used to it or be continually frustrated.

    Where are we, now that we need us most?

    by Frank Knarf on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 10:43:47 AM PDT

  •  I'm not sure what to think here. (0+ / 0-)

    I worked in college athletics for a long time, and as a white male, here are some of the things that I was told with regard to job openings either I or a friend pursued...

    "I'd love to hire you, but HR will not let me replace a female with a white male."

    "You're the most qualified candidate, but I have to have a minority in this position."

    "I was considering (person that I recommended), but I went with about the sixth-most qualified person who applied because she was a minority female and I am committed to diversity in this office."

    And this one I loved from an old boss of mine...

    "HR made me interview three females after I offered you the job..."

    I can only complain so much, because I know we live in a society where non-white males have been discriminated against in galling ways. But as someone who has spent the greater part of his adult life working on a college campus, let me tell you - a degree requirement ain't one of them.

    Because this community is worth staying and fighting for.

    by Great Lakes Liberal on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 11:28:18 AM PDT

  •  I think I understand (0+ / 0-)

    the angst that is apparent in this post.

    Your experiences as a woman in the workplace sounds nothing short of awful. I would love to read more about that! I love reading diaries about these sort of things so that if/when I have problems, I have a reference for how other people have reacted. Often I feel flustered when I am faced with blatant misogyny (that word looks so misspelled bleck).

    I get the point you seem to be driving at, women are paid less and our advance degrees don't make up for the gap. I disagree about gay men, I think they have just as many issues, though experiences are different.

    The way I see it, as long as businesses can be like you're not allowed to talk about your pay, then everyone will be unable to stand together and get what is owed them for the work they do.

    We need a worker's bill of rights for everyone.

    We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. George Orwell

    by Fracturedchaos on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 01:19:03 PM PDT

  •  I agree (0+ / 0-)
    This election HAS to be about us ladies, our bodies, our minds and our ability to take care of ourselves is under attack.
    And that means let's not let the entire issue of the War on Women be hijacked into a cynical GOTV for Obama. We need to put lots more women into the House and the Senate, and to remove large numbers of republicans, and DINOs and other weak brothers.

    Above all, we need to become a "feminist tea party"-like force, which scares the holy sh*t out of any Dems in the next Congress who won't push a strong women's rights and health care agenda. We should restart the Equal Rights Amendment movement, and use it defeat the patriarchs once and for all.

  •  Remembering when I was a kid (0+ / 0-)

    Reading the newspaper want ads before I was old enough to get a job, the ads were divided into "Men" and "Women" headings. And within that the Women category might have ads for "Mature woman" or "young woman". It used to be mature women were considered reliable workers. Now not so much. The young only need apply.  HR people have just gotten better at learning to discriminate without being caught.

  •  This is pretty easy to say, until you are... (0+ / 0-)

    ...actually forced to make a choice.

    I would take equal pay over marriage any day.
    When I had to choose between my jobs and my marriage, I chose my marriage, and quit two jobs with no notice, in one case leaving about 150 students in 5 math classes at a local community community college in the lurch mid semester.

    Somehow, I have to imagine that you are single, given how easily you throw this statement out there.

    "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

    by ehrenfeucht games on Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 05:53:22 AM PDT

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